Author Topic: problem sa hladjenjem  (Read 23684 times)

Offline gajudin

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 2.187
  • bomraketabona
problem sa hladjenjem
« on: April 27, 2008, 20:22:29 PM »
u poslednje vreme desava se da mi se auta ugreje do higha
posavetovao sam sa nesom sta da radim , gde sam dobio savet da izvadim termostat jer je ionako leto pa da vidim desavanja
uradio sam to sve medjutim i dalje  se pregreva, a uz sve to pumpa za gorivo nema dovoljno hladjenja pa nece da baca gorivo i u kvaru sam dok se ne ohladi
dok sam ispustao vodu takva je gomila djubreta izasla da covek ne vereruje ocima, ali opet dzabe, greje se pa to ti je
sledeci korak je da ocistim hladnjak tj da odnesem na ciscenje magistrala jer mi je nesa rekao da je to uzrok u sta nesumnjam
jer sta je sve ispalo iz bloka motora to je ludilo
dosli smo do zakljucka , posto je auto stajao nekih 7 godina i izgleda da je svo vreme bila voda u njemu i to je nakupilo neverovatno puno rdje
trebam da sredim hladnjak, vlada gt mi je dao broj nekog lika koji to radi za 900 din, kome treba neka se javi
i kada budem to sve udesio da valja molim boga da sve bude ok, jer i ako se onda bude kuvao da ga jebem nemam pojma sta je
i  nikada vise vodu necu staviti u hladnja, samo antifriz pa nek je500 stepeni u plusu, kad covek nezna jebi ga,ja tutko vodu i vidi sta napravi, ali nema veze da se sve srediti
ako je neko imao problem ovakvog tipa neka da savet, da li slucajno pre ciscenja hladnjka treba prvo ocistiti kanale u bloku i kako to uciniti, jer dzabe ako ja sredim hladnjak a opet krene krs iz bloka nista nisam uradio :cry:
ZIV JE MINI UMRO NIJE!!!!

Offline Fefe

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 570
    • Samostalni Referenti
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 20:43:50 PM »
ja sam stavio super cool two core radiator-to bi trebalo da je najbolji hladnjak za Minija(ovog koji nije mpi/spi) ali idalje dize temperaturu tako da smo ustanovili da je pumpa za vodu otisla u ku**c...mozda je slican problem i kod tebe...pogotovo ako na leru dize temperaturu kao i kod mene...
Celery Celery if she don't cum I'll tickle her bum with lump of Celery

Offline gajudin

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 2.187
  • bomraketabona
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2008, 20:49:25 PM »
jebote pa mozda si u pravu
meni ina leru dize temparaturu ne nesto mnogo ali dize i bogami cuje se pumpa cangrlja ko mesalica
fala na savetu vrlo je moguce da je pored svega ovoga i to u pitanju :good:
ZIV JE MINI UMRO NIJE!!!!

Offline Brutalac

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 21:00:50 PM »
Minijeva pumpa vode nema funkcije ispod 2000 okretaja, tako da je dobro dok se dugo stoji sa upaljenim motorom koji put stisnut gas da se zavrti iznad 2000 okretaja...
Nisam znao da pumpa goriva ima hladjenje???  :blink:
BTW ako se izvadi termostat, motor se ne moze zagrijati na radnu temperaturu i postoji mogucnost da pregori dihtung glave oko 1. i 2. cilindra...radje kupi novi termostat od Yuga i malo mu smanji promjer sa smirglanjem...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 21:04:22 PM by Brutalac »

Offline Brutalac

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2008, 21:03:27 PM »
Cooling - Controlling water temperature


The introduction of the Cooper S proved to be a testing time for the Mini’s systems, but conveniently provide a guideline as to what the standard cooling system was capable of - that used on the ‘S’ was marginal to say the least!

It wasn’t uncommon for many S’s to spew water from their overflow pipes when ever it was doing anything other than a steady 70 miles an hour, over-heating eventually caused through water loss. Perhaps some deductions can be made from the following…

There are a number of elements involved in controlling water temperature. Some confusion over what to sort first when over-heating occurs leads to wasted time and money, and possibly terminal engine damage. Maximum power is usually generated from A-series engines at 70 – 75 degrees C (160 to 170 degrees F). The main problem with this on a road car is the oil’s unlikely to get hot enough for maximum performance – the results outlined previously. Another being that the heater (where needed) will be grossly inefficient. So, excluding race-cars, the optimum temperature to aim for is 85 to 90 degrees C (185 to 194 degrees F).

Radiators. No amount of tweaking the rest of the cooling system will help if there simply isn’t enough cooling capacity in the radiator. Water capacity used to be the answer, hence the production of four-core radiators. It’s possible the improvement in cooling was a product of more surface area created by the extra tubes, but the inefficient airflow through the congested radiator area reduced its ultimate effectiveness. In reality, effective surface area’s the answer, and why the latest after-market, super-efficient two-core radiators are the best. The standard radiator can just about cope with a standard engine in most cases. The exception appearing to be the fuel injected cars. They’ll stand the limited modifications that can be made without problems. Perhaps it’s the ‘brain’ compensating for it somehow in trimming ignition and fuel? If you’re significantly increasing the power output, I strongly advise fitting one of the aforementioned two-core radiators. And ALWAYS have water flowing out of the heater tap take-off. If no heater or auxiliary matrix is used, plumb it into the top hose. If it’s put back into the bottom hose it won’t work properly, if at all. The water going into the bottom hose at that point MUST be below that in the main hose coming out of the radiator.

I'd like a pound-sterling for every time I've seen an oil cooler doing duty as an auxiliary water radiator. They simply don't work. Well, they do a little. Their design makes them grossly inefficient as the water flows through too quickly, and material spec causes minimal heat transfer. If you need to run an auxiliary radiator, use a heater matrix. See 'Cooling - How it works' for hook-up details.

An expansion tank could be the answer if your motor runs at the right temperature, but is prone to spewing water out the over-flow at odd occasions. Usually when come to a standstill after tramping-on a bit. Water passes into it when over-flow occurs when hot then is drawn back in again when cooling down. Make sure the pressure cap’s fitted to the expansion tank and a flat, plain cap on the radiator.

Fans. They’re there to cool the engine whilst at low speed. Fact. Once above 35 mph or so, it’s airflow through the radiator that does the cooling. Electric fans only help up to about 30 mph, so fitting one won’t cure hot running at speed. The fan creates a barrier to airflow at speed; trimming the blades down in length (NOT removing blades) can often help. Generally the standard plastic fans are the best all-round as they are aerofoil shaped, cutting power consumed, increasing airflow, and quietest running. Two-blade fans are good but noisy, four-blade fans made up of two two-blade fans more so of each. Six-blade ‘export/tropical’ fans better, but noisier! Both eat horsepower.

Water pumps. One good thing that came from ‘S’ development – an improved water pump! Unfortunately, the water pump has fallen into the oil pump syndrome – biggest is best! True for road cars spending most of their time at low-ish rpm under load, but not for high revving engines. The A-series pump is essentially centrifugal; it’s pumping capability squaring with engine rpm. The design’s such that maximum efficiency’s around 2,000rpm, so at low speed it’s hardly moving any water. At 2,000 rpm it’s pumping all the water needed to cool the engine, so higher rpm just means it’s sapping power. If your engine spends all it’s time north of 3,500 rpm or so, a deep impeller pump is costing power, and may be causing cavitation, reducing cooling efficiency. To mediate the A-plus motors got a bigger diameter pump pulley (first seen on the Ss’), and should be used where possible on modified road engines.

I would very strongly advise against the use of the after-market water pumps that have the 'folded tin' impellor as opposed to the cast iron one on the original equipment types. They are grossly inefficient and have a tendency for the impellor to fall off at the worst moments! There are some about with plastic impellors. They seem OK, but I haven't put one to test on a race motor yet. All I can say is I haven't seen a road car with one fitted that has failed yet.

Recent testing has seen the growing popularity of electric water pumps. These have to be the ultimate answer, as their pumping capacity remains constant, as they're completely independent of engine speed. Consequently cooling efficiency is far greater. The only two drawbacks being their initial cost, and installation, as adaptors have to be made up to blank-off the water pump mounting hole. Both, however, are well worth it - the results are outstanding. Not to mention the fact the water pump consumes power to drive it and reduces accelerative power output - to the tune of 4 bhp on a small-bore engine and 2 bhp on the large-bore ones! A further benefit is that the pump can be left running with the engine off after a race/hot/long journey to reduce the problems associated with the 'heat-sink' effects of non-circulating coolant at stand-still. For further information on electric pumps, see relevant article.

Coolant additives. Too many folk seek solace in antifreeze. They keep adding more and more in the hope it'll solve their problems. Whilst a small amount of antifreeze does help marginally as it breaks down the water's surface tension (waters only real drawback as a major coolant), in large amounts it actually makes matters worse (see 'Cooling - How it works' for further information).

The only additive I've ever tested that actually lives up to expectation/recommendation is Redline's Water-Wetter. This stuff basically breaks down water's surface tension without affecting its cooling capability. This maximises water's wetting capability, getting as much water against the metal surfaces of the water jacket as possible. Consequently it prevents the hot-spot syndrome outlined in 'Cooling - How it works'. I always use the liquid product (they do it in crystalised form too, but I'm not so keen on that). Temperature reductions in the order of 8-10 degrees have been experienced. Brilliant stuff. It also acts as a corrosion inhibitor - effective enough to stop ALL corrosion on the block water jacket walls, and the water pump impellor/housing. Lubricates the water pump seals too. Most impressive. For the racers even more good news is it doesn't make your slicks slippery if it gets out of the cooling system.
 :?

Offline ivan

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 1.090
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 22:08:44 PM »
vlada gt mi je dao broj nekog lika koji to radi za 900 din, kome treba neka se javi

ajde ostavi broj ovde...


Offline Fefe

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 570
    • Samostalni Referenti
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 23:52:22 PM »
Minijeva pumpa vode nema funkcije ispod 2000 okretaja, tako da je dobro dok se dugo stoji sa upaljenim motorom koji put stisnut gas da se zavrti iznad 2000 okretaja...
Nisam znao da pumpa goriva ima hladjenje???  :blink:
BTW ako se izvadi termostat, motor se ne moze zagrijati na radnu temperaturu i postoji mogucnost da pregori dihtung glave oko 1. i 2. cilindra...radje kupi novi termostat od Yuga i malo mu smanji promjer sa smirglanjem...
upravo tako sto se tice termostata-te "ovo/ono" varijante su uzasne...termostat koji otvara na 82c i koji je za ficu kosta oko 5 eura tako da je iluzorno stedeti na tome...ja sam uzeo onaj sto otvara na 88c ali sam morao ici na 82c jer ide sve toplije vreme...i kako meni taj neki lik,inzinjer sa plminis rece,sto kasnije termostat otvara-to je bolja iskoriscenost benzina i motor bolje radi...
2 core radiator je idealno resenje...kosta oko 80 evra cini mi se...toliko je mene izasao direkt iz engleske...
Celery Celery if she don't cum I'll tickle her bum with lump of Celery

Offline BaneBRE

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 1.822
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 14:28:56 PM »
...pa postoji i "letnji termostat" otvara cini mi se na 72 ili 77 stepeni... imam ovde negde, aj kad ga nadjem javicu...

Offline Brutalac

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 811
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 23:43:58 PM »
Gle...zaboravi na ljetne i zimske termostate...ostavis 88 i stavi dodatni elektricni ventilator!

mister x

  • Guest
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2008, 16:57:40 PM »
gajudine barabo jedna ,moras vise da se otvoris he he

imas da kupis tekucinu koja cisti hladnjak i to bi trebalo da sipas u sistem za hladjenje te malo provozas
onda ispustis ,ustvari procitaj uputstvo ,uhvati se masnoce i djubreta pa ti zapusi hladnjak to se i meni desavalo

Offline gajudin

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 2.187
  • bomraketabona
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 00:45:38 AM »
kupio i k...c
ZIV JE MINI UMRO NIJE!!!!

Offline BaneBRE

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 1.822
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 08:05:00 AM »
motor je crko... al ko ga jebe, pregurao je svadbu...  :blush:

Offline nikola.m

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 786
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 15:56:12 PM »
ima jos jedna veoma interesantna stvar,koja moze da se desi,a i ne mora,a to je cep od hladnjaka,meni se auto pregrevao konstantno pre i izbacivao vodu kroz crevo pored hladnjaka...zamenio sam cep,tj stavio neki cini mi se sa meksim federom,i sada treba bas dosta da se vozi po paklenoj vrucini da bi nabio temperaturu,ali barem vise ne izbacuje vodu napolje i cim se malo rastereti motor u voznji ohladi ga,tako da skoro da i nemam vise probleme sa pregrevanjem.. :cool:

Offline BaneBRE

  • Aktivan
  • Posts: 1.822
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 18:59:37 PM »
ma jok, ovde je motor otisao u vecna lovista, al ono, nisam imao papire, pukla glava... poskidali sve srafove, matice i ostavili menjac a ostalo u staro gvozdje...

Offline nebkv

  • Članovi MKS
  • Aktivan
  • *
  • Posts: 1.083
Odg: problem sa hladjenjem
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 01:25:16 AM »
Imam jedan problem pa me zanima da li to moze kasnije praviti jos veci
Kompresorom sam produvao sve rupe na bloku sem one sa zadnje strane bloka gde se ispusta voda,to jest "ozracuje".Izgleda je opasno zapusilo i mislim da necu uspeti da otpusim.Da li to kasnije u radu motora moze praviti problem?
Jednom mi se desilo na jednom drugom motoru da sam imao prilicno nestalnu temperaturu dok nisam odvio taj sraf sa zadnje strane bloka i "ozracio" ga